An open letter to unsatisfied users on the newsgroups

Time to start a blacklist?

I have one user in my little book who starts with a question and then the end results is something completely different, he start asking to build a mouse but in the end he wants an elephant. He is like in the commercials..but wait there is more....but wait there is more.... but wait there is more....with every answer he would twist the original question around...scope creep galore. He also like to use some crazy formatting with highlighted sections BIG Fonts etc etc

of course after an hour he would post something like "doesn't anyone know something simple like this"  

sigh, the sad thing is that after 1 year he still asks the same kind of questions

So now when I see his name, I just ignore the thread

Wow Aaron, that post is inexusable (from the poster, not you :) ). What has happened when we can't treat each other with a modicum of civility. Aaron, you're exactly right - how to people expect someone to know the answer to a relatively vague question without having the person answering it truly know their environment. That's one reason I usually avoid newsgroups (I'm selective about what I answer). Too many want a nice pithy answer, and I'm sorry, in the technology world that doesn't exist.

I'm sorry you got treated that way.

Another thing for posters to keep in mind - there are many very bright people out there that are NOT MVPs. Be open in your acceptance of advice. An MVP, or MS employee, or other colleague won't have all the answers - how could they? Personally I'd love to see newsgroups altogether abolished - they are too often used as a lazy approach to researching a problem (come on, Google people), and then if there is no response there is nothing but hostility.

Sorry Aaron, no one should be talked to that way - ever, in any situation. What has our civilization come to....

I think he needs to turn on the SQL Browser service.  But I'll let you relay that message ;-)

Seems like this is happening more often lately.  On SSC there is an open thread about it.  You've just need to focus on the people that "get it" and not let the ingrates get to you.

You do too much good to not continue.

we have a thread about this too on SqlTeam.com forums.

it's titled "Twit list".

go take a look, there's some pretty funny stuff in there. :))

and yes i feel your pain :)

Hello Mr. Bertrand,

Your posts and forum responses are extremely useful, I have saved everyone of them. Please do not be discouraged by the idiots out there. Keep up the great work!!!!

P.S. Your questions which were presented to az where valid, to the point, and would help anyone trying to solve a connectivity issue.

Aaron, I feel your pain - that can happen to anyone. Happened to me too:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.sqlserver.programming/browse_thread/thread/ecc6f51e99e18da7?q=kuznetsov+transaction_Id#f7da096f2998a814

You know, some forums have a Bozo functionality built in, what this does is that only the bozo user sees his own threads and no one else...after a while he leaves the forum because no one seems to answer his question  :-0

I try to remain civil as I know a lot of times folks are frustrated because stuff isn't working and it's on them to get it solved. In some cases they are in positions where they aren't receiving proper training and they're just trying to get the job done. But the thread you posted from the newsgroup really crosses the line. When someone responds like that, there is no point in helping that person. They'll just get the message that being abuse works. So I just drop the thread.

Connectivity issues can be difficult and complex to try and troubleshoot in person let alone over using a medium like the forums and/or newsgroups where people tend to skim your request for information and provide back only what they deem to be important.  

My personal feeling on things is that the generations after ours have a complete lack of decency overall.  You don't see how old people are, and there certainly are jerks in our generation, but people younger than I am seem to think the world owes them something for nothing.  I see it every month with the attitudes of new soldiers coming into the Army Reserves.  

In the MSDN Forums, there are a few characters that have built their applications completely by using the forums over the last year.  It's funny to read their posts now, because they have began to post links to past posts where a recommendation with code sample was made for how to do something, and now it's not working inside the rest of the hacked up code they have pulled from the forums.  Instead of learning the concepts needed to code their app, they just took the code and used it.  Kind of like this post:

http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/transactsql/thread/515d9faf-186d-4f27-8ce7-42e99e071d85/

It's my fault that you don't do the math to figure out a 2 billion row numbers table is a bad idea?  I'm sorry, let me go back and make a big bold note in the text to warn people like you who aren't able to read and understand "number 1 to the maximum value

of an integer 2,147,483,647" means it will be a big table.

Jonathan, here is one of my favorite posts that he created

http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/transactsql/thread/f82e1c20-1690-4e8e-9f41-ec6ff4032ae0

If you go back to April of last year you will see similar code

You have to love this

if 'start_date' is BIG than 'next_shift_date' IN one month than DATE IS '12/01/2008'

Aaron,

I am not sure.

What do you think about the following thread:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.sqlserver.programming/browse_thread/thread/2116590c396e34ec?q=#2209bb33b2d6e13e

Mike C or Mike C# is Michael Coles, my hunch is he's messing with you...he taunted me mercilessly at PASS this year :) In a friendly way - unfortunately that doesn't translate in writing...

Seconded. Well said Aaron!

I don't want to start anything here Aaron, and I personally do appreciate all the work you do for the community, however...  az's snarky "WasteYourTime" comment didn't exactly come out of left field.

You pretty much upped the argumentative ante when you bluntly challenged him to show you exactly where in an earlier post he said he had tried the named instance.  THAT was the point that caused the discussion to go downhill.

To me it seemed that up to that point he was relatively calm and appreciative (though not very thorough), and your frustration cause *you* to escalate the hostile tone - to which he responded in spades.

The state of the forums are indeed sad, and hostility reigns, but it's not always a one sided issue.  When people are frustrated and begging for help, attacking them and showing them up rarely nets much positive result.

That's why I have switched over to stackoverflow.com instead of the newsgroups.  It's nice to have the community downvote lame questions that have no good background.  It's also nice to know that you're appreciated, and IMO stackoverflow does a good job at doing that.  It's also really cool to be able to search out good questions and read what the answers are -- something that's pretty tough in newsgroup-land.

Aaron

Any human interaction requires concessions on both sides if it is to work. Maybe I'm showing my age, but I wince when I see anyone refer to a real identifiable person as a 'dick', 'smart-ass' or a 'jerk', in a blog however wronged you feel. I can't help feeling that it was just a dialog that got out of hand through misunderstanding. I've read the original post carefully, and can see that it could be that the conversation started going downhill from your first reply. We are dealing with a multilingual, multicultural, membership with most forums and it is very easy to intentionally cause offense to someone who is under stress. I've done it many times myself whilst trying to help in forums, sadly; and felt just as indignant about it for a while.

With best wishes

Phil

Respect Aaron !

It's a petty many of us experience this cultural shift.

Indeed, it is a slap in the face and may realy make you reconsider if you should still spend your time to help out others.

Sit back, swallow, breathe, have cup of your favourite beverage and try to recall all the moments that got you to spending that much time helping out.

You first paragraph of this article should be promoted as a sticky banner on all forums !

Johan

At "http://connect.microsoft.com/SQLServer/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=358547", aaronbertrand said, "I was able to resolve the problem using Window / Reset Window Layout thanks to a tip from Steve Kass.".

Stop complaining, you're already my hero for the day.  :)

Hey Aaron - I couldn't agree with you more. I never touch the newsgroups any more and only do forums - and the data corruption/disaster recovery forums at that - because of the question quality, lack of response, and annoying retorts to my responses. What irritates me the most though is when the OP doesn't believe what I'm telling them - for instance, even though I have "author of DBCC CHECKDB" in my forum .sig, I get people questioning my interpretation of corruption errors and asking if anyone else can provide a more palatable (to them) explanation of the problem, or the "Are you sure? This blog post over here by <random clueless person> says you're wrong" That always turns me off for a week or so. Sigh. However, every so often someone is *really* grateful and that makes the altruistic time-sacrifice worthwhile again.

Cheers

The people are very ungrateful. In the Spanish forums the same thing happening.

Jose Mariano Alvarez (MVP)